How to Navigate High-Stakes Encounters with Decisionmakers and Be Ready to Handle Whatever They Throw at You - Episode 23

You're listening to the nonprofit power podcast. In today's episode. We reveal How to navigate high stakes encounters with decision-makers. And be ready to handle whatever they throw at you. So stay tuned. If you want to have real and powerful influence over the money and policy decisions that impact your organization and the people you serve, then you're in the right place. I'm Cath Patrick, and I've helped dozens of progressive non profit leaders take their organizations to new and higher levels of impact and success by building powerful influence with the decision makers that matter. It is possible to get a critical mass of the money and policy decision makers in your world to be as invested in your success as you are, to have them seeking you out as an equal partner, and to have them bringing opportunities and resources to you. This podcast will help you do just that. Welcome to the nonprofit power podcast. Hey everybody. Kath Patrick here. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the nonprofit power podcast. I'm so glad you're here for today's episode. If you've ever been in a high stakes encounter with a decision-maker and found yourself stressing out and struggling to engage them effectively while they lobby challenging questions at you. You're not alone. The good news is it doesn't have to be that way. There are some simple strategies That will help put you in the driver's seat and turn that stress into confidence and certainty Mhm. hey there folks. Welcome to the nonprofit power podcast. I'm your host, Cathy Patrick. A lot of times when we're engaging with a decision maker, it can be pretty stressful. and the higher the stakes, the higher the stress. And part of that stress comes from feeling like we have to get it right. And not screw it up and we have to get all our points in and everything has to be just so, or it won't work. And part of it is our fear that they're going to throw something at us that we don't have an answer for. And then we're going to be stuck. Maybe we're worried that we're going to look stupid. Or maybe we just don't like feeling like we're hanging out there, twisting in the wind. And then there's also the phenomenon of Some folks tell me that they feel like when they get in those high stakes, stressful situations. That it feels like their brain almost slows down that they're not as quick on their feet. talking about the particular service or the thing that they're trying to get the decision maker engaged in. If they're talking about that to someone else, They don't have any problem coming up with great messaging with quick and easy answers. the answers just flow and the clarity is there. It all is just fine. Until you introduce the stress factor and the high stakes factor. And then all of a sudden it's like somebody threw sand in the gears. Your brain's not working as well. And you feel like you're getting caught flat footed and you don't know what to do. And then it just sort of builds on itself because now you're self-conscious about the fact that you're hemmin' and hawin' and you don't have a good answer. We've all been there. We've all been in a situation at least once when that happened to us and it doesn't feel good for sure. But the really good thing to know is that there are some very simple things that you can do that will dramatically reduce the chances of that happening in the first place. And that if it still does happen from time to time, that will give you a way to fix it in the moment. And get yourself back on track, and get back into a flow that's really working for you. Because we all know how that feels, right. When you're in the zone, when your brain is working and everything is flowing, you're all over your messaging and it's great. So you know it's possible. We just have to figure out how to get you to a place where that is what's going on, even when the stakes are high, even when you're stressed out. Even when you're feeling a little self doubt or you're feeling a little uncertain. Because that all happens to all of us, too. So I want you to have some ways to deal with that, that put you in a place of feeling stronger and more confident and more ready. That no matter what they throw at you, you're going to be just fine. the first thing ll not be a surprise to anybody who has worked with me or has been listening to this podcast for a little while. The very first thing is to know your decision maker. You want to know as much about them as you can, in terms of what they care about, the language they use to talk about the things they care about, and what their priorities are. And what keeps them up at night. Because they got worries too. They got things that are stressing them out. And the more we understand where they're coming from and what they're most concerned about and what problems they're trying to solve. The easier it is for us to stay in the zone with them and to help them see what it is that we see. And how the thing that we want to get done is going to be the answer to their problems, too. that's the essence of strategic messaging for the most part is that you are trying to align your messaging with the things that your audience already cares about. But the other way you can use this knowledge is to help you anticipate. what they're likely to ask questions about and how they're likely to frame those questions. So, for example, let's say you're trying to engage a potential contracting partner or a government agency person who you want to work with you to make a particular service happen or to grow its footprint or to add something to it. What have you. you want something from them. you've gotten to the point where you're in the room with them. Maybe you've built a beginning of a relationship or maybe this is your first time talking to them. There's that too. There's always the jitters that come with a first meeting. So let's deal with both of them. It kind of doesn't matter whether this is your first meeting with them or whether it's one in a series that have already happened. Each time you meet with them, if you're on the case, you're learning every time. You're learning more and more about what they care about, what language they use, how they talk about the things that they care about and the work that you do. with every interaction you're learning more and more. So if you've met with them more than once, Fantastic. You probably have more information than if you've never met with them before. But you've got something to start with. Even if you've just asked around and said, Hey, what's it like to work with so-and-so or have you met with them? Or you've done some research. You've looked at their interviews, you've listened to a podcast that they were on, or you've seen a TV appearance, or whatever it is. So, you know something about them. And if they're, for example, a person who is really big on talking about return on investment and cost-effectiveness and efficiency. Then obviously you're going to be framing your stuff in that kind of language, right? That doesn't mean it's the only thing you talk about, but you're certainly going to want to use that framing to help them align with what it is you're proposing. So you already know to do that. And then the other piece is that, that tells you what kinds of questions they're likely to ask and how they're likely to ask them. So you've done whatever you could going in to frame your stuff in the context of ROI, cost savings, cost efficiency, whatever you've got. And it depends on what you're proposing, how you can frame that. And then the things that they're likely to ask are things like, well, is there research that backs that up? is there independent research that backs that up? What other data do you have that Further validate your claim here. what exactly are the cost savings under X, Y, Z circumstances? you know, the thing that we would be looking to do with you would be a little bit different. What impact on ROI might those differences have? It's that kind of stuff. Simply knowing what's coming your way, roughly speaking, is incredibly helpful. And to have done some thinking ahead of time about, okay, if I get some questions that want to go a layer deeper on data, or that are looking for additional proof of what we're claiming, what generally might I want to say to that? How might I want to respond to that? you do a little bit of self inoculation of what are they likely to ask and how can I generally be ready with some responses to that? It's just an opportunity to feel more secure going in, knowing that you have a pretty good sense of where this is going to go and that you're ready for it. that's how you prepare for them. But there's also how you prepare you. And this is hugely important and there's a number of steps to this. One of the most effective things that you can do is to ground yourself in a clear vision for what it is that you want to make happen. and how the thing that you're asking this decision maker to agree to is going to help bring about that vision. It's very easy for us to get pulled down into the details to the detriment of the bigger picture, of the bigger vision. But the thing is most decision makers want to engage with the bigger picture as well as the details. Some of them don't want to hear about details at all. Some do. And that's hopefully something that you either have researched ahead or, you're becoming aware of as you interact with them. It doesn't take long to get a feel for what level of detail a particular decision-maker likes to have. You can learn that by the kinds of questions they ask and by what aspects of what you're sharing with them are resonating for them. If you have a really cool infographic with a bunch of your best data on it. And they kind of gloss over that and it doesn't register. It could be one of two things. even though you've done this wonderful paring down and just the most important facts are on your infographic and you've got it all spiffy. If they're not connecting the dots between whatever is on your infographic and the big picture that they are interested in knowing about, then that information it's not gonna register with them. The other issue may be that they see the big picture. But they don't yet see or buy your vision. so one of the most valuable things you can do is to get clear about how you want to steer their thinking. You want to steer how they're thinking about the thing that you're trying to accomplish, first of all. And then secondarily, how they're thinking about their role in making that happen. in order to do that, you need to have clarity about what your big vision is. What's the big picture of what you're trying to make happen. And then you identify two or three things, big things, that have to happen in order for that vision to be possible, to actually materialize in the world. So if you have a big vision about something new. Something that would vastly improve outcomes for the people who are served or would expand the number of ways in which they're helped, that would be more comprehensive and that would move them closer to being able to be fully thriving members of the community. Or maybe it's a vision that would take something that already does that and reach far more people and multiply impact that way. You first want to have that vision so vividly clear in your mind that you could if called upon, describe it in great detail to someone who asked. That you could paint a picture with your words that's so vivid that they can see it too. when you have that clarity of vision, and have it visualized to such vivid detail, that grounds everything you talk about. And it grounds your energy. It puts you in an energetic frequency that is excited and passionate about the vision. And when I say excited and passionate, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're jumping up and down and carrying on. there can be a quiet intensity or a more animated intensity, and that's going to depend in part on you, your personality, your style what works for you. there's no right or wrong about that. But if you're not personally feeling the passion and the intensity about that vision, I promise you that the decision maker you're talking with won't feel it. Because if you don't feel it, why would they? This is your thing that you're trying to sell them on. Part of the way you engage them is with your energetic frequency. And the best way to ground yourself in that very valuable passionate focused frequency is to get super clear on that vision. you guide them to see that vision first. Imagine what it would look like. Imagine what we could accomplish if the vision were already a complete reality. Here's what would be happening. Here's how the individual participants or clients lives would be improved. Here's how it would improve the bottom line for your company or the city or the county or whoever the decision maker works for. Imagine how we would not only solve a difficult problem. But the result would be that people's lives would be vastly improved and there would be this amazing return. assuming it has some sort of a cost benefit. it would wind up saving money over the long run because these five other things would stop happening that currently are costing us money. We don't always acknowledge that, but the fact is there is a cost to not solving this problem, to not making this vision happen. And so when you look at the cost and then you look at how amazing it would be if you had the benefit. It kind of becomes a no brainer. You don't say the no-brainer part. But you show it. the more you can shape their thinking and their energy and their focus in this conversation, the more you can shape the kinds of questions that they then ask you. Because if they're coming from a place of, they don't see the same vision that you do, they're not feeling inspired, they're not feeling motivated. They're feeling kind of skeptical and like, well, here comes somebody else who wants something from me. pretty sure they want money and they probably want me to do some work and, you know, I not feeling it. So as much as possible, you want them engaged in the vision first. And this is really hard for those of us who work in direct service, because what we want to do is tell them all about the services. And all about how it'll all work and the 529 things that the participants will get, and the way that the services will be delivered. And And there is a time and a place to share that information. But early in the process is not it. The first thing you need to do is get them on board with the vision and the major things that have to happen in order for the vision to be brought about. If you can get them engaging in the big picture conversation and the one level of detail down, how you bring that about. They're going to be asking way better questions. They're going to be asking questions that are more about, okay, wait, I'm not sure how you get from point a to point B. How does, how does the thing you're proposing cause the vision? Okay, great. you can give more clarity about that. Or they might say I'm really going to need an example here to make this clearer. They might very well ask at any point in the process, well, how much is this all gonna cost? And you have a lot of different ways that you can answer that. But one of the most effective things you can do is say some version of, that'll depend on the details of the implementation that we come to agreement on as we talk this through. But let me tell you what it's costing us to not solve the problem, because that is super clear. And then you go into your data you have about what it costs right now to not be solving this problem. Because I promise you, the chances are good that they're probably not thinking about the problem that way, unless they're already pretty well aligned with your worldview and are seeing the vision the same way you do. But remember most of the time nobody that you'll be talking to knows your services as well as you do. You have all kinds of stuff in your head that you think is obvious that isn't. So they may have questions about, well, wait a minute. How does that work? And one of your tasks is to be as succinct as possible, and not go down the rabbit hole of all the little minutiae of how the service is delivered, but to get to the essence of their question. If they're saying, well, wait a second. if the participant finishes step one, isn't that enough? Shouldn't we just let them go out and try that in the world and then wait to see if they need step two. That would be a logical question to ask, right? Cause they're thinking, how can I minimize costs? Does everybody need all four steps or whatever it is in your process? And you can answer that in whatever way is accurate. say, one of the things that is particularly valuable and unique about our approach to these services is that we do not do one size fits all. We have these four elements. And we work with the client to figure out exactly what it is that they need and set them up with a personalized service structure working from those elements, that it's gonna do exactly what they need it to do and not cause them to have to waste any time doing something they don't need. so we're not wasting the participant's time and we're not wasting the cities or the counties or your company's resources to provide something they don't need. You're helping them see that you're aligned with their values of not doing unnecessary stuff and not incurring unnecessary expenses. You don't like waste either. There's so many ways that you can frame your stuff in a way that aligns with your decision-makers priorities. That stick with the integrity of your stuff, and that help the decision-maker ask smarter questions. Ask questions that are more aligned with saying yes to what you want. And steer them away from questions that move them toward no. Part of the secret to doing this is that you structure your meeting so that you come in with big picture, you come in with vision. You engage them with that first, then you do next level down. And then in order for that vision to happen, we've identified two, three things that have to be in place. And when those things are in place, you get these amazing results. And then you trot out one or two really powerful impact data points that show how it transforms people's lives. And while you're doing this, of course, you're always, always gauging reaction. And seeing if they're leaning in. Seeing if this is making sense to them, if they're coming along for the ride, if they're engaged in the story. Because what you're doing is you're telling a story. You're painting a picture for them. You're taking them on a tour of this amazing vision. And showing them around all the rooms. And seeing what amazing stuff is happening in the rooms. That comes before anything else you might tell them. if I could wave a magic wand and do one thing to change the typical messaging structure for going to a decision maker and pitching them on something. The thing I would do with that magic wand is I would basically get rid of about 70% of what usually comes at the beginning of those things. the whole, this is who we are, this is what we do, this is how we do it this is how many people we serve. that part's important. But you tell that in a context that is connected to the vision. We have to get out of book report presentation style. I'm not sure of the reason that so many folks gravitate toward that book report style. I think it's because it's familiar, it's comfortable. It starts with the stuff that we know about, and it's orderly, and all those things. It also does not engage decision makers very well. It's the functional equivalent of, you meet somebody in a social setting, and for the first five minutes of your conversation, they basically read you their resume. They tell you all about everything they've ever done for work and what their big title is and their accomplishments and who they are and What they've done and all of that. And you're looking for the exits. This isn't interesting. This ihe me-me-meimi song. How different would it be if you asked the person, so what do you do. And they say to you. I'm in blah, blah, field. And, you know, the most exciting thing that we're doing right now is. And then they describe something to you that is so vivid that you're just like, wow, you're right there. You're in it. And you almost can't help yourself. You want to ask questions about, well, tell me about that. Tell me about how that works. Wow. That's really cool. I didn't know that. Oh, Wow. You wouldn't ask any of those questions if they just walked in and started telling you everything they thought you should know. There's no discovery there. There's no opportunity to engage. I think so many of the problems that we run into with decision-makers asking what feel like almost gotcha kind of questions or if not hostile than certainly skeptical questions. Like, well, I don't know about that. don't you have a three-year research study with A total N of 3000 people and a double-blind control group and, and, and, and. Unless you're in a really scientific space, those questions aren't friendly questions. Those are questions that are designed to move them closer to no. And you want to structure this conversation to move them closer to yes. Every time they ask a question you want them to be asking a question that helps them get to yes. So you want to be able to shape how they're thinking about this entire endeavor from the beginning. So the added benefit of having this clear vivid vision and the top couple of things that need to happen in order to bring about the vision, is that it gives you a home base. That, if anything happens in the conversation that knocks you off your stride, that has you feeling like, oh crap. I don't know the answer to that. Oh, wow. Where'd that come from? That was out of left field. Take a breath. Come back to your vision in your mind. And those top couple of things that need to happen. And consider the question from that framework. If you stay grounded in your vision, it will help you keep the decision-maker focused there. And not on extraneous stuff that really are just them setting the stage for it to be easier for them to say no. And they'll usually do that either because they already decided before you even got in the room that they don't want anything to do with your..., whatever you're proposing I don't want it. They could be so diametrically opposed to the kind of services that you provide or the way that you provide them, that they are not a friendly audience and they're going to be a really hard sell. And maybe they're never going to be your audience. It's possible. I have certainly been in meetings like that, where it became clear that they were so philosophically opposed to the approach to the problem that those services took, they didn't care how effective it was. They didn't care how much money it's saved. They didn't care about any of that because they had an underlying philosophical belief that said, either we shouldn't help those people, or if we do, we should make them. jump through a lot of really punitive hoops in order to access those kinds of services. And anything that doesn't do that isn't sufficiently strict. if that's the person you're dealing with you may or may not ever be able to get any traction with them. And I as a general rule, don't recommend you start with people like that. And you may eventually have to at least diminish or neutralize their opposition to something. But obviously you're not going to them as your first pick for a decision-maker who's going to help you make this thing happen. Right. Unless you're in such a horrific political environment in your city or county or your state, that what I just described is the least hostile of all the decision makers available to you. In which case that's a separate podcast episode and a whole separate set of strategies. When you're in that environment, you gotta go to some additional strategies that we're not going to tackle right here. I'm assuming that you're engaging decision makers that are at least open to having a conversation. And do not have so many underlying preconceived notions about what kind of obstacles have to be placed in the way of someone seeking services in order to make it legitimate. if you're in that environment, then you need different strategies. You're not going to get anywhere, trying to engage them with your grand vision if they are diametrically opposed to what your vision represents. So that's an important caveat. But Most of the time when you're looking to engage a decision maker as a problem solving partner, and you're not in an adversarial relationship like that, these strategies do work well. So. No matter what they ask you're always tying it back some way to your vision and your top couple of things that need to happen. Now. There are limits to that. You can oversimplify this in a way that is unhelpful. there's a school of thought that says no matter what they ask, always bring it back to your talking points. Well, yes and no. you can take that to an extreme that does not serve you. this is why I make the distinction between talking points and vision. There's a huge difference. Talking points would be like, well, it's cost-effective because blah, blah, blah. it's innovative because blah, blah, blah. It's superior to the competition because blah, blah, blah. Those are talking points. And those are great. And you should have them. I'm a hundred percent for that. You want to have your mental ducks in a row that you have answers for those kinds of things if somebody asks you something really specific like that. But For example, you've laid out your vision. And they respond by saying, well, I just don't see how that could ever happen. That's a nice fantasy, but there's no way. That's just not realistic. What else he got? That's the kind of question that if you are not grounded in the energy of that vision, can knock you so far off your game at the beginning of that encounter, that the whole rest of the thing just goes sideways. But if you're energetically grounded in your vision, and you believe in it, a hundred percent. Then the response to that question or something like it is to just say. Interesting that you think that, tell me why. Because from where I sit. This is not only possible. This is. Imperative. We must do this. But I'm interested to hear your take on why you think it is not achievable. Because we absolutely believe it is. If you're grounded in the conviction that this is the right vision, and this is where you need to be going, somebody completely challenging your vision does not knock you off your game at all. It puts you into well, huh? That's interesting. Cause boy, from where we sit, that is not what we think at all. We believe this is absolutely necessary and it is a hundred percent doable. And we need to do it. But tell me what your concerns and reservations are so that we can sort those out. And then really listen to them. Because chances are, unless they're just being a jerk and they're genuinely hostile on my entire subject, yep it's probably just that they can't see what you see. They have a set of beliefs or a framework or a perspective that from where they sit, they're in the obstructed view seats, they can't see the thing that you see. So you have to help move those obstructions out of the way so that they can see what you see. Part of the definition of a leader is being able to see things that others haven't seen yet. And to be able to bring them to where they can see it too. And so that is a big part of your job. And so if you come to it from the certainty that your vision is right. And it is not only doable, but very much needed and the best solution to the problem at hand. Then you can stay focused on helping the decision maker see what you see. you ask questions of them. Help me understand. You take it in stride, in your head, you can say well that's interesting. That tells me a lot about the fact that they're sitting in the obstructed view seats. Well, we got some clearing to do here. Let's start figuring out what the obstructions look like so that we can move them out of the way so that they can see what we see. And you come to it from that. It changes everything. When your energy and your frequency is grounded in that certainty, there's far less room for being nervous or uncertain. Or feeling like, oh God, I don't know what to say now. he asked this. I what do I do now? Uh, that goes away. Because everything is about helping them see the vision, helping them get excited about the vision too. And then you can have the conversation about, so how do we get there? Let's talk details now. But if you calm in talking details before they've bought the vision, it sets you up to get asked a whole lot of nitpicky questions that can throw you off your game and that moved them closer to no. You don't want that. You want to set it up so that the only questions they're asking are ones that are going to help them get to yes. So questions that help them get to yes are. And it might be disguised. They might say. Well, I don't see how that could work ever. Well, hidden in, there is a challenge for you to show them how it could work. You can reframe that question in your mind to. I can't see how that would work. I don't understand how that could work. Show me. And you show them. And if you need more information in order to understand what they're struggling with, then you ask about that. But even a question or a statement that sounds hostile, isn't necessarily. It's just telling you in very clear terms that they can't see what you see. Yet. So help them. Help them see what you see. The other thing that's very helpful is to have questions of your own that will get you the information and the engagement that you need, and that will also help you steer the conversation. So you can be ready with questions that you either ask when there's a space for it. Or you can sometimes counter their question with a question of your own. Classic example, I already suggested, which is they say, how much is this all gonna cost? And you can say, well, that would depend on the details that we sort out. But let me ask you this. What's your sense of how much it's costing you every day that we don't do this. And they say whatever they say. Maybe they say, well, I have no idea. Or I don't think it's costing us anything. this is not really that big of a problem. Whatever. Well, they just gave you information and now you know where to go next. Now you say, well, actually, and then you lay out the, we know from some credible source. not, we made this up. we know from census data, we know from city or county data, we know from the, county health department, we know that there are this many people with this problem. And every person who has that problem that goes unaddressed winds up costing this much for this thing. And this much for that thing that has to be done further down the road to patch up what we could have solved early on and that cost would never have occurred. Those are the kinds of data you want to be ready with. But you don't just lead with all your data. You use it strategically. And ideally you use it when they've asked a question where that data point is going to be the answer to that question. Cause that's the difference between a lecture and engagement. If they're asking you questions, they are engaged. Even if their questions don't feel super friendly. If they're asking questions and not just making declarations of this is BS. It won't work. Get out of my office. I mean, if that happens, you might as well get out of their office. There are limits. But if that's not happening, if they're asking you questions, even if those questions feel kind of cranky, Which they often will, by the way. not always. But you know, a lot of decision-makers are pretty stressed out and they got a lot of stuff on their plate and a lot of stuff, keeping them up at night. And if they're asking cranky questions, it's probably because they haven't decided whether you're just another problem that they have to deal with. You're just another person who wants something from them. And so that again is part of the value of coming in with a clarity of vision that you can help them see. If you're focused on the vision. And not about Hi, we need a million dollars. You'll get to that. Eventually you have to get to the million dollars or whatever you're asking for. But you don't start there obviously. And you know, that. But the vision is paramount. And if you've got them asking questions about the vision, well, how can that work? how is that different than what we have now? Well, I don't understand, there's already XYZ service that I thought was designed to solve this problem. Are you saying it doesn't solve it? Or we've had xYZ solution in place for years and it's worked fine. Why would we change it? And then that's your opportunity to say, well, depends on how it worked fine is defined. Here are the outcomes that the current structure is producing and it's so far short of what's possible. And when you do the thing that is actually possible, when you do the thing that produces the better outcomes. You get all this extra benefit and you get this reduced cost over on this side of the ledger. here's what's possible Let's talk about how we make that happen. The power of vision cannot be overstated. It's what engages people and makes them want to join you in making that vision happen. And it gives you the internal power and focus to help you handle anything a decision-maker can throw at you. Thanks for listening and I'll see you in the next episode. If you found value in this episode, please share it with other progressive nonprofit leaders. And I'd be grateful if you'd also leave a rating and review, which will help even more people find out about the podcast. Thanks