Aug. 10, 2025
How to Establish Yourself as an Expert in the Eyes of Decisionmakers
Have you ever been frustrated by a decisionmaker who doesn't acknowledge your expertise and therefore doesn't take your advice? Or have you ever hesitated to brand yourself as an expert? These may seem like two separate problems, but they're actually related. And if you've ever experienced either one, this episode is for you. I know so many nonprofit leaders who are otherwise totally confident, but if you ask them to declare themselves or present themselves as an expert on anything, the...
Have you ever been frustrated by a decisionmaker who doesn't acknowledge your expertise and therefore doesn't take your advice? Or have you ever hesitated to brand yourself as an expert?
These may seem like two separate problems, but they're actually related. And if you've ever experienced either one, this episode is for you.
I know so many nonprofit leaders who are otherwise totally confident, but if you ask them to declare themselves or present themselves as an expert on anything, they'll often say things like, well, I know a lot about the subject, but I'm not an expert. I don't know everything. There are people who know more than I do.
People trip themselves up all the time with this. The truth is there is no magic threshold for level of knowledge or experience that is the official entry point to status of expert. But there are some key ingredients to owning the expertise you have, and to getting decisionmakers to recognize and value that. And to see you as the expert you truly are.
In this episode, we share:
- The top two barriers to being seen as an expert by decisionmakers – and how to fix them
- Dealing with internal doubts about calling yourself an expert
- Why expert status is not determined by credentials alone
- Four questions to ask yourself to determine if you’re “expert enough” for a given decisionmaker
- Why being an expert doesn’t automatically mean decisionmakers see you as such
- How to become the expert that decisionmakers respect and rely on
- How relativity of expertise works for you
Help spread the word! If you found value in this episode, I’d be grateful if you would leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen. Your reviews help other nonprofit leaders find the podcast. Thanks!!
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You're listening to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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In today's episode, we share how to establish yourself as an expert in the eyes of decision makers.
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So.
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Stay tuned.
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If you wanna have real and powerful influence over the money and policy decisions that impact your organization and the people you serve, then you're in the right place.
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I'm Kath Patrick, and I've helped dozens of progressive Nonprofit leaders take their organizations to new and higher levels of impact and success by building powerful influence with the decision makers that matter.
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It is possible to get a critical mass of the money and policy decision makers in your world to be as invested in your success as you are, to have them seeking you out as an equal partner and to have them.
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Bringing opportunities and resources to you.
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This podcast will help you do just that.
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Welcome to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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Hey there folks.
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Welcome to another episode of the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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I'm your host, Kath Patrick.
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I'm so glad you're here for today's episode.
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Have you ever been frustrated by a decision maker who doesn't acknowledge your expertise and therefore doesn't take your advice?
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Or have you ever hesitated to brand yourself as an expert?
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These may seem like two separate problems, but they're actually related.
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And if you've ever experienced either one, this episode is for you.
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The truth is there is no magic threshold for level of knowledge or experience or whatever, that is the official entry point to status of expert.
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And people trip themselves up all the time with this.
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I know so many Nonprofit leaders who are otherwise totally confident, but if you ask them to declare themselves or present themselves as an expert on anything, they'll often say things like, well, you know, I know a lot about the subject, but I'm not an expert.
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I don't know everything.
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There are people who know more than I do.
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And sure, all those things are true.
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Pretty much that's true for even the most acknowledged, recognized expert experts of the universe.
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They all either freely admit or secretly know that there's probably at least one person who knows at least as much as they do, or who maybe knows more about a particular thing.
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And you know, the other reality is none of us are expert in everything.
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So declaring yourself an expert in one thing doesn't mean you're declaring yourself to be the expert of everything, just of the thing that you know a lot about.
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So, clearly, expert is a relative concept.
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The real question is, do you have knowledge, insight, or perspective that would help a decision maker make a better decision?
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If the answer to that is yes, then you are an expert in that context.
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And quite honestly, you need to own that.
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If you've been in your line of work for a while, then you're definitely an expert by that definition.
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But even if you've only been in your direct service role for a year or two, that means that you have a year or two more experience and exposure than the typical decision maker, to the people you serve, the problems they experience, the ways in which they experience them, and how that affects their lives and their family's lives, and the consequences and costs of failing to solve that problem.
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This is an aspect of that relativity of expertise that I think is really important for all of us to get our head around.
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That in order to help someone in whatever way, if you have even a little bit more knowledge than they do, you can be helpful to them.
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If you know more about any one of those aspects of the client's experience of the problem than does the decision maker that you're talking to, then you have expertise to share.
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Do you have experience that the decision maker doesn't have in solving this particular problem?
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In solving it well and in genuinely helping clients move closer to a place of thriving?
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If so, then you have knowledge and expertise that decision maker doesn't have, and that they need in order to make better decisions about policy or funding, or a combination of the two.
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Has your organization been able to have a significant impact in solving the problem, in generating cost savings to the system, in improving things for the community in other ways?
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And very importantly, does the decision maker know how to get those results by themselves?
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If the answer to the first question is yes, and the second question is no.
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Then you have some very important expertise to share.
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So if you ask yourself all those questions and you still feel like, well, yeah, but that doesn't make me an expert, I would invite you to reconsider the meaning of the word expert.
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There are a lot of ways in which a decision maker could benefit from your expertise and would probably be very happy to rely on your expertise if you were willing to inhabit the identity of expert.
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Here's another question to consider.
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What are the consequences of you not owning and sharing your expertise?
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Is that decision maker going to get your perspective and your insight and your unique knowledge from anyone else?
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No they are not, because it's yours.
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And if they don't have that additional knowledge, perspective, and expertise, does that increase or decrease the likelihood that they're gonna make decisions that do not serve your clients or your organization?
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Bottom line?
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When you sell your expertise short, you're relinquishing a key piece of what would allow you to have influence with a decision maker.
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We'll get into that a little bit more later in the episode, but for now, let us stipulate, because I already know this is true, even if you're still working on it.
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Let's stipulate that you are in fact an expert.
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So it's great to be an expert, but what you really want in terms of influencing decision makers is for them to see you as an expert.
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And one of the keys to being seen as an expert is not just having the knowledge and expertise.
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It's the ability to explain things to others in a way that makes sense to them, that's relevant to them, and that resonates with them.
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And this is another place where a lot of times folks get a little off track.
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One thing that I think is so important to understand in messaging in general and in this context in particular, is that information is low value.
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It's still relevant.
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We do want people to have information.
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We want informed decision making.
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So as part of sharing your expertise, you will share some information.
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But if that's all you share, if you just share the facts, you're missing a key ingredient of what will help and cause that decision maker to see you as an expert.
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And the added pieces are the ability to bring that information to life for the decision maker.
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To help them see it in a way that makes sense to them.
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And to be able to weave in your perspective and your insight, which is not straight information.
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It's analysis and interpretation of the things that you have observed or done that are facts.
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So we have to be able to do that too.
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And ideally you bring all of that together.
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And the next level version of that is being able to ask the decision maker questions that pulls them along through your analysis.
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For example, here's a really common one.
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You provide a service.
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There is some sort of authorizing legislation perhaps at the federal or the state or the local level, or some combination thereof.
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That delineates what the service is supposed to be and what's gonna be paid for, and then there are some rules about that.
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Okay, so that's all in policy.
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And let's say you've been in that system for a bit and providing services under it.
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And you've identified an aspect of that policy that is actually acting against the intended result.
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Which actually happens a lot.
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And the reason it happens, not surprisingly, is that often when decision makers and their staff are crafting policy, they don't have in their toolkit full knowledge and perspective and understanding of how those systems will work on the ground.
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And so they're making up the best policy they can make up without that information.
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And most of the time they get pieces of it wrong.
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Even when they mean well, even when their goal is similar to your goal.
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You both wanted the same thing.
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You wanted a particular group of people to be able to have services that would help them thrive in some particular aspect of their life.
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And so they created this program that's supposed to do that.
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But then they also gotta have rules about how the money can be spent.
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And we have to make sure that we don't have leaky buckets there in the funding system, where money is getting just frittered away.
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And we have to, you know, make sure that the service providers are qualified and all.
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There's all kind of rules that go into crafting policy that says we're gonna have a service that is supported by government and it's gonna be paid for by government.
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So if we're gonna do that, gotta have some rules.
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And that's all fine.
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And here's how we envision the system working, and we are gonna design it and have these various decision making bodies that are structured into the system and all of that.
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And here's how the money will flow.
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All those things are designed in policy.
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And very commonly, those designs, even if there have been advocates at the table.
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Which does not always happen, but even if there have been advocates at the table, unless they were pushing really hard, really persistently and had the level of credibility as experts in the minds of those decision makers, so that their advice would be taken when the policy was being designed.
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That's a lot of ifs.
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If that didn't all happen, what you get is policy that's got some holes in it and that doesn't work so great.
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And that not infrequently wind up with things that, once they're actually implemented, wind up working against the desired result.
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So you're working in the system.
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You've identified one of those and you wanna raise it with the relevant decision making body so that it can get changed.
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You could go in with just information.
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You have many layers of knowledge, of practical experience actually implementing the thing.
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And observing its impact on clients and what's working well for them and what's not.
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What's working well for your staff and what's not.
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And how the things that are in the way are specifically impacting the results and probably resulting in less desirable outcomes for an unacceptable percentage of clients.
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You have all that information and that is extremely valuable.
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But if all you do is come to the decision maker with that pile of information and you lay it out for them.
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And say, okay, you know, this policy has this impact, da, da, da dah, and this is how it goes on down the chain.
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This is the impact on the people delivering the service.
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This is the impact on the people receiving the service.
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This is the impact on the outcomes.
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That information, absent analysis and context and perspective, is not going to sway most decision makers.
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Unless they're deeply interested in the subject already.
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So you've gotta do more than that.
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Bringing information in is not going to get you seen as an expert.
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The way you get seen as an expert is you bring in that information and you bring analysis and perspective and advice with it.
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You can still trot out your information, but you preface it by talking about how you understand what the intent of the policy was.
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If the decision maker you're talking to had a role in creating that policy, you acknowledge that and you acknowledge their good intentions.
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And maybe you even engage them a little bit in conversation about, so it's my understanding that the goal of this was X, Y, Z.
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Is that right?
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Pull them in, get them invested in having this conversation.
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The more they become invested in that, the more they're taking ownership of it.
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And the more it's gonna chafe when they find out that their design ain't working.
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So you draw them in with that.
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You get them agreeing with you about what the goal was and what everybody wants as the result here.
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And then you can say, and on paper, this looks fine.
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But here's the thing, this is how it actually plays out.
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It turns out there's a couple of holes here and there.
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There's a couple of provisions where either the way it's being interpreted, or more typically, it's just the way it's written., Left out an important piece, or failed to consider something, or whatever is the problem.
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So it's not just, this is the impact of the current policy.
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It's why that impact is happening.
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What is it in the policy that's causing this, and where is it breaking down?
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And then you can talk about the impact and say, I know that nobody who was involved in the design of this was looking to have this be the outcome, but this is what we're dealing with.
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So I wanna talk with you about how we can fix it so that we can have all the clients getting the kinds of results that everybody intended with this.
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Let's talk about how we can make this better and how we can fix this problem.
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When you bring in that, first of all, you're establishing yourself as a joint problem solving partner, which immediately puts you on equal footing with them.
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Do you have their same power?
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No.
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That's not the point.
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It's equal footing in the sense of you are gonna solve this problem together.
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Not you are the supplicant coming in going, well, we found a problem.
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I hope you'll fix it.
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That does not scream expertise.
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But when you come in with the problem, the diagnosis, the analysis of how it came to be and the treatment plan, the solution.
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Or a couple of possible treatment plans is even better so that they can at least debate that a little bit and not just feel like you did all the work and now there's nothing for them to do but say yes.
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So there's a give and take in that process.
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But you have to come into it prepared to do all of those pieces.
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When you do that, three things happen.
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Number one, they immediately see you as an expert, guaranteed.
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Number two, they recognize that because you have the ability not only to identify a problem, but to diagnose it and to analyze it and to recommend effective policy solutions for it.
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That you are an asset to them.
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They can rely on you to help solve a problem that 10 minutes ago maybe they didn't even know existed.
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The third thing that happens, because you came in as an ally who wants to help them solve the problem.
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You are also an ally.
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All of that combines to planting you in their head as an expert.
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Not only for this conversation, for this problem, but on this subject matter going forward.
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They now know that you can be relied on to do all those things.
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And to engage them around problems in a way that is super constructive.
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Coming at it as a problem solving partner and being willing to work together to fix it.
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That is the kind of expert they really want in their world.
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And it's the kind of expert they'll call on again and again once they figure out that's who you are.
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So you can be an expert but not be seen as an expert.
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You can be seen as an expert, but not as an ally.
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Or you can be seen as both.
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And that's really what we're looking for.
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Implicit in that is how you show up.
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So if you are harboring internal doubts about whether it's okay to call yourself an expert, or whether it's okay to claim and own that expertise.
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What are the chances of you showing up as an assertive problem solving partner who's ready to come in there, lay out the issue, identify the problem, present the diagnosis, take them through the analysis, and recommend the treatment plan options, and get ready to roll up your sleeves and make one of those treatment plans happen with them.
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What are the chances you're gonna be able to do all of that if you're still back at square one saying, well, I don't really feel like it's appropriate to call myself an expert.
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I know some stuff, but I don't know everything and I don't know all of it.
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There are people who know more.
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Yeah.
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Great.
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Wonderful.
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Um.
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Welcome to the Human Condition.
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There's somebody somewhere who knows more than you about everything.
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But there is nobody who knows more than you do about your experience, your observations, your analysis in doing the work that you do.
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And I guarantee you that the number of decision makers who have anything close to that expertise and experience and perspective is almost zero.
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There are a few of them, but they are rare.
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And if they exist, you've already identified them and know that they are great allies.
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And you're probably already working together with'em.
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But other than that, you are the relative expert for the situation at hand.
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It can challenge your comfort zone for sure.
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If you've been reluctant to label yourself as an expert for any of the reasons I suggested, or maybe some I haven't thought of.
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The first thing I would encourage you to do is to start simply owning the title of expert.
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That doesn't mean you gotta put it on your business card.
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It doesn't mean you have to put it on your LinkedIn profile, although that might be a pretty good idea.
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But internally.
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Start inside and say, yeah, you know what?
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Actually in this set of things over here, yeah.
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Actually, I do know quite a bit.
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And certainly I have some perspective and analysis and insight that pretty much most of the decision makers I've talked to seem to be lacking.
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How do I know this?
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Because virtually every client I've ever worked with, one of their number one complaints is decision makers don't get it.
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They don't really get what we do.
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They don't really get the value of the work.
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They don't really get the full impact.
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They don't totally understand how it all works.
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They don't understand how we get the results we get and how valuable those are.
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There's a whole lot of not getting it in decision maker land that makes most Nonprofit leaders fairly crazy.
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So I know that you're aware of some decision makers who could definitely use your expertise and your insight and your perspective.
00:20:06.028 --> 00:20:08.449
And your recommendations for making things better.
00:20:09.135 --> 00:20:26.832
But until you take ownership of your expertise and step into the identity of expert, your ability to show up and deliver that level of engagement and problem solving with decision makers is gonna be a struggle.
00:20:27.642 --> 00:20:30.842
So start small if you need to, but start working on that.
00:20:32.048 --> 00:20:39.548
I've been presenting myself as an expert in meetings with decision makers for a long, long time on a host of different topics.
00:20:39.959 --> 00:20:47.085
On a handful of which I was actually maybe one of the top five experts in the country on that particular thing.
00:20:47.775 --> 00:20:50.055
But in most cases, that wasn't so.
00:20:50.255 --> 00:20:55.446
In other cases, I'd been working in that arena for a few months.
00:20:55.866 --> 00:21:06.945
But I had spent a ton of time burrowing in on exactly what was going on in the field so that I could go to policymakers and lay out the kind of full scenario and prescription that I just talked about.
00:21:07.769 --> 00:21:09.419
And here's what I learned.
00:21:09.969 --> 00:21:17.479
Is that even when I just learned all that stuff in the last six months, I still knew vastly more than the decision maker.
00:21:17.979 --> 00:21:23.916
And because I showed up as someone owning the expertise and saying, I have something to help you.
00:21:24.346 --> 00:21:26.717
I am here to help you, let's talk about it.
00:21:27.217 --> 00:21:28.686
And showed up in that way.
00:21:29.186 --> 00:21:31.987
At no point did they question my expertise.
00:21:32.047 --> 00:21:35.737
At no point did they ask me, so, how long have you been in this field?
00:21:35.787 --> 00:21:37.701
How long have you been working on this issue?
00:21:37.977 --> 00:21:39.338
Do you have a degree in it?
00:21:39.368 --> 00:21:40.808
Do you have credentials?
00:21:40.808 --> 00:21:42.669
Did you get certification?
00:21:42.669 --> 00:21:43.144
Da, da, da, da.
00:21:43.144 --> 00:21:45.553
Nobody asks that stuff.
00:21:45.792 --> 00:21:51.346
If you show up and know what the heck you're talking about and can be helpful.
00:21:51.976 --> 00:22:02.134
And share some insights they don't have and that they can find valuable and do something with, then you are the expert in that moment.
00:22:02.634 --> 00:22:05.183
Does that mean there are no other experts in your field?
00:22:05.243 --> 00:22:05.814
Of course not.
00:22:05.814 --> 00:22:06.503
There's lots of them.
00:22:06.683 --> 00:22:07.403
There's tons of them.
00:22:07.409 --> 00:22:10.253
And there's probably a bunch of them who know way more than you do, maybe.
00:22:10.374 --> 00:22:10.943
I don't know.
00:22:11.064 --> 00:22:14.634
Or maybe you are the top expert in your field, in the nation.
00:22:15.203 --> 00:22:15.834
In which case.
00:22:16.045 --> 00:22:19.315
I presume you already know that and are owning that already.
00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:27.143
So wherever you are in the process of owning your expertise, there's always a next level to take that to.
00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:48.317
And I hope that I've given you an opportunity to think about not only how to own and inhabit that identity of expert, but also how to show up in that expert role in a way that is going to cause decision makers to look at you, to respond to you as, oh yeah, this is an expert and I need this person.
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:51.441
They're an asset, they are an ally.
00:22:51.441 --> 00:22:52.101
I need them.
00:22:53.086 --> 00:22:54.868
You've already got what you need.
00:22:55.382 --> 00:22:56.971
You already know enough.
00:22:57.061 --> 00:22:59.192
You already know more than enough.
00:22:59.741 --> 00:23:06.279
And it is okay, by the way, I'm sure you've heard this a hundred times before, but I'm gonna say it one more time.
00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:08.615
It's okay to say, I don't know.
00:23:09.358 --> 00:23:20.232
If you're in conversation with a decision maker and you've presented yourself as an expert and they come up with a question that you don't know the answer to, it's perfectly okay to say, I don't know.
00:23:20.732 --> 00:23:23.883
Now how you say I don't know matters.
00:23:24.383 --> 00:23:27.353
I wouldn't recommend going, oh, geez, I don't know.
00:23:27.353 --> 00:23:28.462
I ain't got a clue.
00:23:28.462 --> 00:23:29.873
I have no idea.
00:23:29.992 --> 00:23:31.073
Never even thought of that.
00:23:31.573 --> 00:23:36.439
Probably more useful to say, that is a really excellent question.
00:23:36.828 --> 00:23:38.628
Right now, I don't have the answer for you.
00:23:38.628 --> 00:23:42.679
But it's an excellent question and I'd like to know the answer too so I'm gonna get on that.
00:23:42.979 --> 00:23:44.794
And I will get back to you as soon as possible.
00:23:45.294 --> 00:23:47.814
Because you're absolutely right to have identified that.
00:23:48.054 --> 00:23:55.554
That is a piece of information or a perspective or whatever that we need in this conversation as we work on solving this problem.
00:23:56.153 --> 00:23:59.513
You always bring it back to, we're working on this together.
00:24:00.384 --> 00:24:03.534
But it's entirely okay to not know the answer.
00:24:03.534 --> 00:24:05.513
That doesn't mean you're not an expert.
00:24:05.513 --> 00:24:09.326
It just means that you're not omniscient, which no one is.
00:24:09.385 --> 00:24:10.675
So it's okay.
00:24:10.736 --> 00:24:11.546
You're in good company.
00:24:12.155 --> 00:24:23.755
Let go of all the imaginary definitions of expert and understand that the one that matters in the context of working with decision makers and wielding influence with them is, do you have knowledge?
00:24:23.785 --> 00:24:24.865
Do you have insight?
00:24:24.865 --> 00:24:25.974
Do you have perspective?
00:24:25.974 --> 00:24:29.305
Do you have experience that they do not?
00:24:30.265 --> 00:24:33.325
That will be helpful to them in their decision making process.
00:24:33.714 --> 00:24:47.912
And that will make it more likely, if they listen to you and if they regard you as an expert and take your advice, that it will make them more likely to make decisions that in the end will be good for your clients and your organization.
00:24:48.638 --> 00:24:53.588
Thanks for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode right here on the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:02.689
You're listening to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
00:00:03.140 --> 00:00:09.529
In today's episode, we share how to establish yourself as an expert in the eyes of decision makers.
00:00:10.006 --> 00:00:10.455
So.
00:00:10.635 --> 00:00:11.115
Stay tuned.
00:00:17.425 --> 00:00:26.335
If you wanna have real and powerful influence over the money and policy decisions that impact your organization and the people you serve, then you're in the right place.
00:00:26.966 --> 00:00:39.956
I'm Kath Patrick, and I've helped dozens of progressive Nonprofit leaders take their organizations to new and higher levels of impact and success by building powerful influence with the decision makers that matter.
00:00:40.585 --> 00:00:53.125
It is possible to get a critical mass of the money and policy decision makers in your world to be as invested in your success as you are, to have them seeking you out as an equal partner and to have them.
00:00:53.185 --> 00:00:55.975
Bringing opportunities and resources to you.
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This podcast will help you do just that.
00:00:59.155 --> 00:01:02.185
Welcome to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
00:01:07.778 --> 00:01:08.558
Hey there folks.
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Welcome to another episode of the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
00:01:11.709 --> 00:01:13.028
I'm your host, Kath Patrick.
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I'm so glad you're here for today's episode.
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Have you ever been frustrated by a decision maker who doesn't acknowledge your expertise and therefore doesn't take your advice?
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Or have you ever hesitated to brand yourself as an expert?
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These may seem like two separate problems, but they're actually related.
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And if you've ever experienced either one, this episode is for you.
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The truth is there is no magic threshold for level of knowledge or experience or whatever, that is the official entry point to status of expert.
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And people trip themselves up all the time with this.
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I know so many Nonprofit leaders who are otherwise totally confident, but if you ask them to declare themselves or present themselves as an expert on anything, they'll often say things like, well, you know, I know a lot about the subject, but I'm not an expert.
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I don't know everything.
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There are people who know more than I do.
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And sure, all those things are true.
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Pretty much that's true for even the most acknowledged, recognized expert experts of the universe.
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They all either freely admit or secretly know that there's probably at least one person who knows at least as much as they do, or who maybe knows more about a particular thing.
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And you know, the other reality is none of us are expert in everything.
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So declaring yourself an expert in one thing doesn't mean you're declaring yourself to be the expert of everything, just of the thing that you know a lot about.
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So, clearly, expert is a relative concept.
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The real question is, do you have knowledge, insight, or perspective that would help a decision maker make a better decision?
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If the answer to that is yes, then you are an expert in that context.
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And quite honestly, you need to own that.
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If you've been in your line of work for a while, then you're definitely an expert by that definition.
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But even if you've only been in your direct service role for a year or two, that means that you have a year or two more experience and exposure than the typical decision maker, to the people you serve, the problems they experience, the ways in which they experience them, and how that affects their lives and their family's lives, and the consequences and costs of failing to solve that problem.
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This is an aspect of that relativity of expertise that I think is really important for all of us to get our head around.
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That in order to help someone in whatever way, if you have even a little bit more knowledge than they do, you can be helpful to them.
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If you know more about any one of those aspects of the client's experience of the problem than does the decision maker that you're talking to, then you have expertise to share.
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Do you have experience that the decision maker doesn't have in solving this particular problem?
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In solving it well and in genuinely helping clients move closer to a place of thriving?
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If so, then you have knowledge and expertise that decision maker doesn't have, and that they need in order to make better decisions about policy or funding, or a combination of the two.
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Has your organization been able to have a significant impact in solving the problem, in generating cost savings to the system, in improving things for the community in other ways?
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And very importantly, does the decision maker know how to get those results by themselves?
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If the answer to the first question is yes, and the second question is no.
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Then you have some very important expertise to share.
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So if you ask yourself all those questions and you still feel like, well, yeah, but that doesn't make me an expert, I would invite you to reconsider the meaning of the word expert.
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There are a lot of ways in which a decision maker could benefit from your expertise and would probably be very happy to rely on your expertise if you were willing to inhabit the identity of expert.
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Here's another question to consider.
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What are the consequences of you not owning and sharing your expertise?
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Is that decision maker going to get your perspective and your insight and your unique knowledge from anyone else?
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No they are not, because it's yours.
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And if they don't have that additional knowledge, perspective, and expertise, does that increase or decrease the likelihood that they're gonna make decisions that do not serve your clients or your organization?
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Bottom line?
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When you sell your expertise short, you're relinquishing a key piece of what would allow you to have influence with a decision maker.
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We'll get into that a little bit more later in the episode, but for now, let us stipulate, because I already know this is true, even if you're still working on it.
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Let's stipulate that you are in fact an expert.
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So it's great to be an expert, but what you really want in terms of influencing decision makers is for them to see you as an expert.
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And one of the keys to being seen as an expert is not just having the knowledge and expertise.
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It's the ability to explain things to others in a way that makes sense to them, that's relevant to them, and that resonates with them.
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And this is another place where a lot of times folks get a little off track.
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One thing that I think is so important to understand in messaging in general and in this context in particular, is that information is low value.
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It's still relevant.
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We do want people to have information.
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We want informed decision making.
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So as part of sharing your expertise, you will share some information.
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But if that's all you share, if you just share the facts, you're missing a key ingredient of what will help and cause that decision maker to see you as an expert.
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And the added pieces are the ability to bring that information to life for the decision maker.
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To help them see it in a way that makes sense to them.
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And to be able to weave in your perspective and your insight, which is not straight information.
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It's analysis and interpretation of the things that you have observed or done that are facts.
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So we have to be able to do that too.
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And ideally you bring all of that together.
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And the next level version of that is being able to ask the decision maker questions that pulls them along through your analysis.
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For example, here's a really common one.
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You provide a service.
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There is some sort of authorizing legislation perhaps at the federal or the state or the local level, or some combination thereof.
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That delineates what the service is supposed to be and what's gonna be paid for, and then there are some rules about that.
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Okay, so that's all in policy.
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And let's say you've been in that system for a bit and providing services under it.
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And you've identified an aspect of that policy that is actually acting against the intended result.
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Which actually happens a lot.
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And the reason it happens, not surprisingly, is that often when decision makers and their staff are crafting policy, they don't have in their toolkit full knowledge and perspective and understanding of how those systems will work on the ground.
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And so they're making up the best policy they can make up without that information.
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And most of the time they get pieces of it wrong.
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Even when they mean well, even when their goal is similar to your goal.
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You both wanted the same thing.
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You wanted a particular group of people to be able to have services that would help them thrive in some particular aspect of their life.
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And so they created this program that's supposed to do that.
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But then they also gotta have rules about how the money can be spent.
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And we have to make sure that we don't have leaky buckets there in the funding system, where money is getting just frittered away.
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And we have to, you know, make sure that the service providers are qualified and all.
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There's all kind of rules that go into crafting policy that says we're gonna have a service that is supported by government and it's gonna be paid for by government.
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So if we're gonna do that, gotta have some rules.
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And that's all fine.
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And here's how we envision the system working, and we are gonna design it and have these various decision making bodies that are structured into the system and all of that.
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And here's how the money will flow.
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All those things are designed in policy.
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And very commonly, those designs, even if there have been advocates at the table.
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Which does not always happen, but even if there have been advocates at the table, unless they were pushing really hard, really persistently and had the level of credibility as experts in the minds of those decision makers, so that their advice would be taken when the policy was being designed.
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That's a lot of ifs.
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If that didn't all happen, what you get is policy that's got some holes in it and that doesn't work so great.
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And that not infrequently wind up with things that, once they're actually implemented, wind up working against the desired result.
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So you're working in the system.
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You've identified one of those and you wanna raise it with the relevant decision making body so that it can get changed.
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You could go in with just information.
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You have many layers of knowledge, of practical experience actually implementing the thing.
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And observing its impact on clients and what's working well for them and what's not.
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What's working well for your staff and what's not.
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And how the things that are in the way are specifically impacting the results and probably resulting in less desirable outcomes for an unacceptable percentage of clients.
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You have all that information and that is extremely valuable.
00:12:01.820 --> 00:12:08.091
But if all you do is come to the decision maker with that pile of information and you lay it out for them.
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And say, okay, you know, this policy has this impact, da, da, da dah, and this is how it goes on down the chain.
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This is the impact on the people delivering the service.
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This is the impact on the people receiving the service.
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This is the impact on the outcomes.
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That information, absent analysis and context and perspective, is not going to sway most decision makers.
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Unless they're deeply interested in the subject already.
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So you've gotta do more than that.
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Bringing information in is not going to get you seen as an expert.
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The way you get seen as an expert is you bring in that information and you bring analysis and perspective and advice with it.
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You can still trot out your information, but you preface it by talking about how you understand what the intent of the policy was.
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If the decision maker you're talking to had a role in creating that policy, you acknowledge that and you acknowledge their good intentions.
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And maybe you even engage them a little bit in conversation about, so it's my understanding that the goal of this was X, Y, Z.
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Is that right?
00:13:22.653 --> 00:13:26.014
Pull them in, get them invested in having this conversation.
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The more they become invested in that, the more they're taking ownership of it.
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And the more it's gonna chafe when they find out that their design ain't working.
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So you draw them in with that.
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You get them agreeing with you about what the goal was and what everybody wants as the result here.
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And then you can say, and on paper, this looks fine.
00:13:51.222 --> 00:13:54.072
But here's the thing, this is how it actually plays out.
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It turns out there's a couple of holes here and there.
00:13:57.590 --> 00:14:09.788
There's a couple of provisions where either the way it's being interpreted, or more typically, it's just the way it's written., Left out an important piece, or failed to consider something, or whatever is the problem.
00:14:10.288 --> 00:14:13.528
So it's not just, this is the impact of the current policy.
00:14:13.557 --> 00:14:15.597
It's why that impact is happening.
00:14:16.227 --> 00:14:21.187
What is it in the policy that's causing this, and where is it breaking down?
00:14:21.687 --> 00:14:31.113
And then you can talk about the impact and say, I know that nobody who was involved in the design of this was looking to have this be the outcome, but this is what we're dealing with.
00:14:31.503 --> 00:14:40.429
So I wanna talk with you about how we can fix it so that we can have all the clients getting the kinds of results that everybody intended with this.
00:14:40.929 --> 00:14:44.080
Let's talk about how we can make this better and how we can fix this problem.
00:14:44.866 --> 00:14:54.674
When you bring in that, first of all, you're establishing yourself as a joint problem solving partner, which immediately puts you on equal footing with them.
00:14:55.174 --> 00:14:56.495
Do you have their same power?
00:14:56.495 --> 00:14:56.945
No.
00:14:57.318 --> 00:14:58.278
That's not the point.
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:03.438
It's equal footing in the sense of you are gonna solve this problem together.
00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:08.418
Not you are the supplicant coming in going, well, we found a problem.
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I hope you'll fix it.
00:15:09.938 --> 00:15:11.469
That does not scream expertise.
00:15:11.969 --> 00:15:20.239
But when you come in with the problem, the diagnosis, the analysis of how it came to be and the treatment plan, the solution.
00:15:20.739 --> 00:15:31.129
Or a couple of possible treatment plans is even better so that they can at least debate that a little bit and not just feel like you did all the work and now there's nothing for them to do but say yes.
00:15:32.152 --> 00:15:34.072
So there's a give and take in that process.
00:15:34.251 --> 00:15:38.751
But you have to come into it prepared to do all of those pieces.
00:15:39.361 --> 00:15:41.581
When you do that, three things happen.
00:15:42.081 --> 00:15:46.304
Number one, they immediately see you as an expert, guaranteed.
00:15:47.014 --> 00:16:01.397
Number two, they recognize that because you have the ability not only to identify a problem, but to diagnose it and to analyze it and to recommend effective policy solutions for it.
00:16:01.897 --> 00:16:04.657
That you are an asset to them.
00:16:05.235 --> 00:16:11.710
They can rely on you to help solve a problem that 10 minutes ago maybe they didn't even know existed.
00:16:12.904 --> 00:16:19.798
The third thing that happens, because you came in as an ally who wants to help them solve the problem.
00:16:20.298 --> 00:16:21.379
You are also an ally.
00:16:22.264 --> 00:16:28.225
All of that combines to planting you in their head as an expert.
00:16:28.225 --> 00:16:34.554
Not only for this conversation, for this problem, but on this subject matter going forward.
00:16:35.274 --> 00:16:40.075
They now know that you can be relied on to do all those things.
00:16:40.335 --> 00:16:45.394
And to engage them around problems in a way that is super constructive.
00:16:45.894 --> 00:16:51.083
Coming at it as a problem solving partner and being willing to work together to fix it.
00:16:51.583 --> 00:16:55.183
That is the kind of expert they really want in their world.
00:16:55.364 --> 00:17:00.375
And it's the kind of expert they'll call on again and again once they figure out that's who you are.
00:17:01.375 --> 00:17:04.555
So you can be an expert but not be seen as an expert.
00:17:05.424 --> 00:17:08.545
You can be seen as an expert, but not as an ally.
00:17:09.095 --> 00:17:10.785
Or you can be seen as both.
00:17:11.285 --> 00:17:12.410
And that's really what we're looking for.
00:17:13.511 --> 00:17:16.022
Implicit in that is how you show up.
00:17:16.522 --> 00:17:26.351
So if you are harboring internal doubts about whether it's okay to call yourself an expert, or whether it's okay to claim and own that expertise.
00:17:27.310 --> 00:17:48.094
What are the chances of you showing up as an assertive problem solving partner who's ready to come in there, lay out the issue, identify the problem, present the diagnosis, take them through the analysis, and recommend the treatment plan options, and get ready to roll up your sleeves and make one of those treatment plans happen with them.
00:17:48.594 --> 00:17:56.034
What are the chances you're gonna be able to do all of that if you're still back at square one saying, well, I don't really feel like it's appropriate to call myself an expert.
00:17:56.267 --> 00:17:59.507
I know some stuff, but I don't know everything and I don't know all of it.
00:17:59.507 --> 00:18:00.826
There are people who know more.
00:18:01.067 --> 00:18:01.396
Yeah.
00:18:01.457 --> 00:18:01.936
Great.
00:18:02.326 --> 00:18:02.987
Wonderful.
00:18:03.509 --> 00:18:04.109
Um.
00:18:04.609 --> 00:18:06.680
Welcome to the Human Condition.
00:18:06.730 --> 00:18:10.240
There's somebody somewhere who knows more than you about everything.
00:18:10.843 --> 00:18:18.366
But there is nobody who knows more than you do about your experience, your observations, your analysis in doing the work that you do.
00:18:19.202 --> 00:18:29.201
And I guarantee you that the number of decision makers who have anything close to that expertise and experience and perspective is almost zero.
00:18:29.701 --> 00:18:31.740
There are a few of them, but they are rare.
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:35.340
And if they exist, you've already identified them and know that they are great allies.
00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:37.201
And you're probably already working together with'em.
00:18:37.746 --> 00:18:43.615
But other than that, you are the relative expert for the situation at hand.
00:18:44.624 --> 00:18:46.723
It can challenge your comfort zone for sure.
00:18:47.192 --> 00:18:53.480
If you've been reluctant to label yourself as an expert for any of the reasons I suggested, or maybe some I haven't thought of.
00:18:53.980 --> 00:19:00.852
The first thing I would encourage you to do is to start simply owning the title of expert.
00:19:01.352 --> 00:19:03.392
That doesn't mean you gotta put it on your business card.
00:19:03.602 --> 00:19:07.531
It doesn't mean you have to put it on your LinkedIn profile, although that might be a pretty good idea.
00:19:08.031 --> 00:19:08.942
But internally.
00:19:09.428 --> 00:19:11.587
Start inside and say, yeah, you know what?
00:19:11.587 --> 00:19:13.948
Actually in this set of things over here, yeah.
00:19:13.948 --> 00:19:15.087
Actually, I do know quite a bit.
00:19:15.087 --> 00:19:24.208
And certainly I have some perspective and analysis and insight that pretty much most of the decision makers I've talked to seem to be lacking.
00:19:24.852 --> 00:19:25.961
How do I know this?
00:19:25.967 --> 00:19:34.946
Because virtually every client I've ever worked with, one of their number one complaints is decision makers don't get it.
00:19:35.396 --> 00:19:37.227
They don't really get what we do.
00:19:37.227 --> 00:19:39.957
They don't really get the value of the work.
00:19:39.957 --> 00:19:42.836
They don't really get the full impact.
00:19:43.336 --> 00:19:45.856
They don't totally understand how it all works.
00:19:45.856 --> 00:19:49.656
They don't understand how we get the results we get and how valuable those are.
00:19:50.047 --> 00:19:56.444
There's a whole lot of not getting it in decision maker land that makes most Nonprofit leaders fairly crazy.
00:19:57.006 --> 00:20:05.528
So I know that you're aware of some decision makers who could definitely use your expertise and your insight and your perspective.
00:20:06.028 --> 00:20:08.449
And your recommendations for making things better.
00:20:09.135 --> 00:20:26.832
But until you take ownership of your expertise and step into the identity of expert, your ability to show up and deliver that level of engagement and problem solving with decision makers is gonna be a struggle.
00:20:27.642 --> 00:20:30.842
So start small if you need to, but start working on that.
00:20:32.048 --> 00:20:39.548
I've been presenting myself as an expert in meetings with decision makers for a long, long time on a host of different topics.
00:20:39.959 --> 00:20:47.085
On a handful of which I was actually maybe one of the top five experts in the country on that particular thing.
00:20:47.775 --> 00:20:50.055
But in most cases, that wasn't so.
00:20:50.255 --> 00:20:55.446
In other cases, I'd been working in that arena for a few months.
00:20:55.866 --> 00:21:06.945
But I had spent a ton of time burrowing in on exactly what was going on in the field so that I could go to policymakers and lay out the kind of full scenario and prescription that I just talked about.
00:21:07.769 --> 00:21:09.419
And here's what I learned.
00:21:09.969 --> 00:21:17.479
Is that even when I just learned all that stuff in the last six months, I still knew vastly more than the decision maker.
00:21:17.979 --> 00:21:23.916
And because I showed up as someone owning the expertise and saying, I have something to help you.
00:21:24.346 --> 00:21:26.717
I am here to help you, let's talk about it.
00:21:27.217 --> 00:21:28.686
And showed up in that way.
00:21:29.186 --> 00:21:31.987
At no point did they question my expertise.
00:21:32.047 --> 00:21:35.737
At no point did they ask me, so, how long have you been in this field?
00:21:35.787 --> 00:21:37.701
How long have you been working on this issue?
00:21:37.977 --> 00:21:39.338
Do you have a degree in it?
00:21:39.368 --> 00:21:40.808
Do you have credentials?
00:21:40.808 --> 00:21:42.669
Did you get certification?
00:21:42.669 --> 00:21:43.144
Da, da, da, da.
00:21:43.144 --> 00:21:45.553
Nobody asks that stuff.
00:21:45.792 --> 00:21:51.346
If you show up and know what the heck you're talking about and can be helpful.
00:21:51.976 --> 00:22:02.134
And share some insights they don't have and that they can find valuable and do something with, then you are the expert in that moment.
00:22:02.634 --> 00:22:05.183
Does that mean there are no other experts in your field?
00:22:05.243 --> 00:22:05.814
Of course not.
00:22:05.814 --> 00:22:06.503
There's lots of them.
00:22:06.683 --> 00:22:07.403
There's tons of them.
00:22:07.409 --> 00:22:10.253
And there's probably a bunch of them who know way more than you do, maybe.
00:22:10.374 --> 00:22:10.943
I don't know.
00:22:11.064 --> 00:22:14.634
Or maybe you are the top expert in your field, in the nation.
00:22:15.203 --> 00:22:15.834
In which case.
00:22:16.045 --> 00:22:19.315
I presume you already know that and are owning that already.
00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:27.143
So wherever you are in the process of owning your expertise, there's always a next level to take that to.
00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:48.317
And I hope that I've given you an opportunity to think about not only how to own and inhabit that identity of expert, but also how to show up in that expert role in a way that is going to cause decision makers to look at you, to respond to you as, oh yeah, this is an expert and I need this person.
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:51.441
They're an asset, they are an ally.
00:22:51.441 --> 00:22:52.101
I need them.
00:22:53.086 --> 00:22:54.868
You've already got what you need.
00:22:55.382 --> 00:22:56.971
You already know enough.
00:22:57.061 --> 00:22:59.192
You already know more than enough.
00:22:59.741 --> 00:23:06.279
And it is okay, by the way, I'm sure you've heard this a hundred times before, but I'm gonna say it one more time.
00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:08.615
It's okay to say, I don't know.
00:23:09.358 --> 00:23:20.232
If you're in conversation with a decision maker and you've presented yourself as an expert and they come up with a question that you don't know the answer to, it's perfectly okay to say, I don't know.
00:23:20.732 --> 00:23:23.883
Now how you say I don't know matters.
00:23:24.383 --> 00:23:27.353
I wouldn't recommend going, oh, geez, I don't know.
00:23:27.353 --> 00:23:28.462
I ain't got a clue.
00:23:28.462 --> 00:23:29.873
I have no idea.
00:23:29.992 --> 00:23:31.073
Never even thought of that.
00:23:31.573 --> 00:23:36.439
Probably more useful to say, that is a really excellent question.
00:23:36.828 --> 00:23:38.628
Right now, I don't have the answer for you.
00:23:38.628 --> 00:23:42.679
But it's an excellent question and I'd like to know the answer too so I'm gonna get on that.
00:23:42.979 --> 00:23:44.794
And I will get back to you as soon as possible.
00:23:45.294 --> 00:23:47.814
Because you're absolutely right to have identified that.
00:23:48.054 --> 00:23:55.554
That is a piece of information or a perspective or whatever that we need in this conversation as we work on solving this problem.
00:23:56.153 --> 00:23:59.513
You always bring it back to, we're working on this together.
00:24:00.384 --> 00:24:03.534
But it's entirely okay to not know the answer.
00:24:03.534 --> 00:24:05.513
That doesn't mean you're not an expert.
00:24:05.513 --> 00:24:09.326
It just means that you're not omniscient, which no one is.
00:24:09.385 --> 00:24:10.675
So it's okay.
00:24:10.736 --> 00:24:11.546
You're in good company.
00:24:12.155 --> 00:24:23.755
Let go of all the imaginary definitions of expert and understand that the one that matters in the context of working with decision makers and wielding influence with them is, do you have knowledge?
00:24:23.785 --> 00:24:24.865
Do you have insight?
00:24:24.865 --> 00:24:25.974
Do you have perspective?
00:24:25.974 --> 00:24:29.305
Do you have experience that they do not?
00:24:30.265 --> 00:24:33.325
That will be helpful to them in their decision making process.
00:24:33.714 --> 00:24:47.912
And that will make it more likely, if they listen to you and if they regard you as an expert and take your advice, that it will make them more likely to make decisions that in the end will be good for your clients and your organization.
00:24:48.638 --> 00:24:53.588
Thanks for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode right here on the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
